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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 19:24:00 -
[1]
... as long as ASCN fail to win any decisive fleet battles against BoB fleets only the blatantly obvious will happen...
You cannot hope to win a war without ever defeating the enemy on the battlefield.
Its simply not possible... whichever way you look at it.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/10/2006 20:45:48
 Quote:
Not to diminish how hard FIX fought for their space but I don't believe it was 3 months of getting all of BOBs undivided attention. If Memory serves most of their fighting was against the coalition wasn't it?
I'm afraid your timeline is all wrong...
let me put it right for you..
TIMELINE [relevant to this discussion]
- CA implodes after SA perform some social engineering and SA + ATUK + Xetic whole load of other entities apply a lot of military pressure.
- SA rebrands itself as SE
- Shinra on SE's bequest descend first on Querious (they retreat) and then move onto decimate Period Basis League (FA puppet government in Period Basis)
- Atuk initiates operation Goatsie (I think I got that right..) and start attacking FA.
- FIX run into Atuk in the A2- pipe and start fighting.. SE as allies decide this is sufficient as a good enough reason to declare war on FIX.
- BoB turn up on the scene and this is where they make their first move on the south ... they are allied with SE.
- FIX ends up fighting SE, BoB and Atuk at the same time, however BoB and Atuk start changing their target towards FA after a few weeks.
- SE withdraws from the war after suffering countless defeats on the battlefield against FIX.
- Atuk and BoB concentrate on FA and also keep FIX very busy so that they can setup camp in PB and Delve, everytime BoB wants to move to PB or Delve through A2-V27 they run into a FIX fleet.
- FIX and BoB continue fighting for about 3 - 4 months nonstop, eventually leading to a healthy respect which leads to an eventual cease in hostilities.
.... k we can stop here...
NOTE : The Coalition war hasn't happened yet, that happens a month or so after BoB and FIX sign a NAP.
Wether BoB meant to destroy FIX or not is debatable.. personally I think they thought FIX was a worthy oponent and were more interested in beating up FA.
However, for about 3 months FIX and BoB fought like clockwork every day at around 7pm (GMT) a 70-80 man BoB fleet would roll into Querious and we would fight them sometimes they won, sometimes we won.
This went on for months everyday without fail.
Draw your own conclusions....
[edit:typo]
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/10/2006 21:00:06
Quote:
I'm sorry Nez but what you just described isn't BOB's undivided attention.
I never said it was... but even you must admit that FIX fought tooth and nail against overwhelming odds for its space and survived.
And even after that FIX provided BoB with months upon months of unadulterated fleet warfare fun.
No I don't think BoB wanted to destroy FIX after they saw how we fought off SE and themselves at the same time.. but the why of it is important.
I'll let you work that out for yourself.
PS
I'd like to add something else as well... can people stop dragging up ancient history if they are not sure about it 
[edit:typo]
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Slowboat
I'm sorry Nez but what you just described isn't BOB's undivided attention.
.. just been thinking about what you said some more...I'm going to go out on a limb here... and perhaps BoB will disagree with what I am about to say...
here goes...
If FA had more pro-active and fielded a half decent fighting fleet in the defence of Period Basis and Delve when BoB first started dropping anchor in those regions.... and had FA and FIX been proper allies with a Mutual Defence Pact..... then BoB wouldn't have been able to gain their initial foothold.
As it happened.. and I'm sorry for any ex-FA readers following this thread.. FA fleets were useless and more of a liability than a military asset.
So what Endersgame was saying was in part true... FIX with a little bit of help could have stood up to BoB and BoB accept this and is why there was a healthy respect between us.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Not quite, Nez. Shinra never went after FIX, although im flattered that our occasional raid into Querious/Delve/PB and Fountain are seen as a descend on Querious. We really just settled in Vezila while regrouping and restocking, and we lead the occasional fleet to have some fun. And ya, ran into some FIX. Querious was never our goal, Period Basis was.
Also, Shinra was as active if not more active as ATUK and pre-BoB against FA. Not completely relevant to this discussion, but i'd hate it if our part was forgotten. It was Shinra that captured PB and completely pacified Delve. Shinra took the stations in Delve, but gave them to Reikoku at the time.
BoB sticked around and we didnt, thats all.
hehe.. fair enough I'll stand corrected then... I suppose when you guys dropped an entire fleet onto 9cg and stayed there for several days.. it was only a courtesy visit.. perhaps testing the waters...although it certainly felt like an invasion at the time. 
Shinra did create massive problems for FA and it should not be forgotten.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/10/2006 21:44:31
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/10/2006 21:42:53
Originally by: pershphanie
Originally by: Nez Perces
You cannot hope to win a war without ever defeating the enemy on the battlefield.
Its simply not possible... whichever way you look at it.
Not true. I've fought a war and lost every single fight without exception and still won the war rather easily.
/waves to smash. hi Emperor!
... hmm k this sounds intriguing.. could you give us some more details?
How do you win a military war in EVE, where territorial conquest is the objective, without winning any battles on the field?
I for the life of me can't think of a way to accomplish this.
[edit:for clarity]
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: pershphanie
I'll drop you an eve mail in game when I get back from picking my roommate up at the airport.
... heh.. its a lot more fun on the forums.. but as you wish.. 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 21:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mauxir
Nez you ever heard of the "scorched earth" tactic?
that tactic does not work in EVE, in EVE nobody dies of hunger or cold once the winter arrives....
unless I'm missing something.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 22:08:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/10/2006 22:09:29
Originally by: Mauxir
With the scorched earth tactic I meant that the farther an enemy advances into enemy territory the longer his supply lines stretch.
When you remove resources that might benefit him and try and cut off his supply route he will be crippled and defeated.
So to defeat an enemy you don't need to win a battle to win a war if you can cripple him in this way.
well... in EVE, particularly with the advent of clone jumping and capital fleets with jump capabilities... these problems are reduced. Logistics have been aided massivley by jump drive technology.
An entity with good logistics can move around the EVE map within hours and be ready to fight on several fronts within a short period of time. ASCN for example has got outposts dotted all over its territory, which will provide forward supply depots for BoB as they advance.
No.. this scorched earth policy is a pipe dream. Entities who believe it will save them from a dedicated logistically capable entity, are clutching at straws.
You still need to engage and defeat your enemy at some point.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 01:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/10/2006 01:17:47
Originally by: Gungankllr
..nice post..
...
That being said, we never really needed Battleship fleets, as we weren't going after anyone else in large fleets except invaders. If an invading force brought a large battleship contingent, we could amass a massive blob and either make them log, make them run or make them die...
Thats a nice post GK, much like the other good post you made right at the beginning of the war...
.. however, your post actually contains the reason why ASCN is going to suffer horribly in this war.. and I highlighted it in italics...
Your leadership is guilty of gross negligence for not drilling its troops in basic fleet warfare beyond the obvious blob tactics and that goes for your FC's too, which seem to be lacking.
ASCN has so much to learn and seems to be so lacking in basic fleet manouvres, that it is quite possible that the rate at which you improve will not keep up with the rate at which BoB will gobble up your territory.
ASCN is guilty of falling into the carebear trap... and BoB is gonna shake the living daylights out of you... its quite possible that you won't survive the shock to the system.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 07:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/10/2006 07:54:44
Originally by: Kaemper
Even if it doesnt sound like it, i dont 'hate' BoB. Im just tired of your never ending forumw***ing.
In any case have fun down there. Win on the battlefield, not the forums.
Thats really a funny thing to say..... seems like you really hate how some people actually enjoy the banter on the forums...
Its weird because.. the reality is that wars are won on the battlefield but the stories about them are told on the forums....ofc who wins the battles and the subsequent stories about them.. will have an effect on future battles.
You can't win a war by forum alone without winning battles... however there is no more effective way of winning a war than by winning battles and retelling them on the forums.
BoB or ASCN coming on to the forums and telling us of their victories or whatever, is just human nature... if you don't like the forums and what gets told on them, you are really missing out on one of the most interesting of EVE's dimensions.
Your loss I guess.. but then attacking those that do enjoy the exchanges that happen here.. is absurd.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dawn Princess
I think that ASCN generally does a decent job of defending its space and as I said, if we fail to defend it from the self proclaimed premier alliance in all of EVE then its hardly a terrible defeat is it? Its like losing the world cup final to Brazil, its no shame to lose, but if you win, imagine the glory.
wow.. thats fighting talk huh... go get 'em girl if BoB don't behave themselves you can hit Molle with your Barbie...
If you are characteristic of the ASCN mindset atm... just LOL, you are so dead its unreal.
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 13:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/10/2006 13:48:08
Originally by: Ian Novarider
Priceless, Bret, PRICELESS !
Come on ...
lets sing the ASCN version of "Dont bring me down" by ELO or "Another BoB bites the dust" by Queen !
Have fun - we do
Ian
... on ancient earth, when a passenger ship was sinking, it was customary to have the brass band play on ... apparently it helped to deal with the inevitable...
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dawn Princess
Is that not really what I have said (by the "trying" part)?
Trying just ain't good enough... ASCN has to do... you guys need to round up your best FC's, get your pilots in their best ships and take the fight directly to the BoB fleets.
When you get there fight them... perhaps you will lose...
But you will learn something.... rinse and repeat until you don't have any more ships left or you have learnt what you need to learn to beat them.
Don't outblob them.. match their numbers..... ASCN needs to turn into a pvp tour de force to win this war...
The attitude you are projecting onto the forums.. is that you are resigned to losing against the best.
ASCN still has time.... use it to learn from BoB, fight them and learn from them.
ASCN seems to have the ISK, the manpower and the logistics to make mincemeat out of BoB.. it just doesn't have the willpower... it is also possible that your HC is rotten from within. If that is the case you might as well cut a deal with BoB now to become renters.
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